Welcome, Guest. Please Login.
Home Help Search Login
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Not all soldiers are Criminals (Read 799 times)
jh
Executive Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 1633
Gender: male
Not all soldiers are Criminals
Nov 10th, 2011, 6:50pm
 
This soldier is certainly a criminal...but criminal behavior is not acceptable in  the military and there is a price to be paid. Many soldiers are also kind, compassionate and considerate...but they do not make the news.
 
US soldier found guilty in Afghan thrill-killings
By GENE JOHNSON - Associated Press | AP – 17 mins ago
 
JOINT BASE LEWIS-McCHORD, Wash. (AP) — A U.S. Army soldier accused of exhorting his bored underlings to slaughter three civilians for sport was convicted of murder, conspiracy and other charges Thursday in one of the most gruesome cases to emerge from the Afghan war.
Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, of Billings, Mont., was the highest ranking of five soldiers charged in the deaths of the unarmed men during patrols in Kandahar province early last year. At his seven-day court martial at Joint Base Lewis-McChord south of Seattle, the 26-year-old acknowledged cutting fingers off corpses and yanking out a victim's tooth to keep as war trophies, "like keeping the antlers off a deer you'd shoot."
But he insisted he wasn't involved in the first or third killings, and in the second he merely returned fire.
Prosecutors said Gibbs and his co-defendants knew the victims posed no danger, but dropped weapons by their dead bodies to make them appear to have been combatants.
Three of the co-defendants pleaded guilty, and two of them testified against him, portraying him as an imposing, bloodthirsty leader who in one instance played with a victim's corpse and moved the mouth like a puppet. Gibbs' lawyer insisted they conspired to blame him for what they had done and told the five jurors the case represented "the ultimate betrayal of an infantryman."
The jury deliberated for about four hours before convicting him. The sentencing hearing began immediately after the verdict was announced, with a prosecutor, Maj. Andre LeBlanc, asking for the maximum, life without parole. He told jurors that Gibbs was supposed to protect the Afghan people, but instead caused many to lose trust in Americans, hurting the mission. LeBlanc noted that Gibbs repeatedly called the Afghans "savages."
"Ladies and gentlemen, there is the savage — Staff Sgt. Gibbs is the savage," he said.
Gibbs' lawyer, Phil Stackhouse, asked for leniency — life with parole, instead of without it — and noted that Gibbs could be eligible for parole after 10 years if they allowed it.
"He'd like you to know he has had failures in his life and he's had a lot of time to think about them," Stackhouse said. "He wants you to know he's not the same person he was in Afghanistan. He doesn't want his wife to have to raise their son on her own."
The investigation into the 5th Stryker Brigade unit exposed widespread misconduct — a platoon that was "out of control," in the words of a prosecutor, Maj. Robert Stelle. The wrongdoing included hash-smoking, the collection of illicit weapons, the mutilation and photography of Afghan remains, and the gang-beating of a soldier who reported the drug use.
In all, 12 soldiers were charged; all but 2 have now been convicted.
The probe also raised questions about the brigade's permissive leadership culture and the Army's mechanisms for reporting misconduct.
After the first killing, one soldier, then-Spc. Adam Winfield, alerted his parents and told them more killings were planned, but his father's call to a sergeant at Lewis-McChord relaying the warning went unheeded. Winfield later pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the last killing, saying he took part because he believed Gibbs would kill him if he didn't.
The case against Gibbs relied heavily on testimony from former Spc. Jeremy Morlock, of Wasilla, Alaska, who is serving 24 years after admitting his involvement in all three killings.
According to Morlock, Gibbs gave him an "off-the-books" grenade that Morlock and Private 1st Class Andrew Holmes, of Boise, Idaho, used in the first killing — a teenager in a field — in January 2010.
The next month, Morlock said, Gibbs killed the second victim with Spc. Michael Wagnon, of Las Vegas, and tossed an AK-47 at the man's feet to make him appear to have been an enemy fighter. Morlock and Winfield said that during the third killing, in May, Gibbs threw a grenade at the victim as he ordered them to shoot.
Morlock and others told investigators that soon after Gibbs joined the unit in 2010, he began talking about how easy it would be to kill civilians, and discussed scenarios where they might carry out such murders.
Asked why soldiers might have agreed to go along with it, Morlock testified that the brigade had trained for deployment to Iraq before having their orders shifted at the last minute to Afghanistan.
The infantrymen wanted action and firefights, he testified, but instead they found themselves carrying out a more humanitarian counter-insurgency strategy that involved meetings and handshaking.
Another soldier, Staff Sgt. Robert Stevens, who at the time was a close friend of Gibbs, told investigators that in March 2010, he and others followed orders from Gibbs to fire on two unarmed farmers in a field; no one was injured. Gibbs claimed one was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, but that was obviously false, Stevens said.
Stevens also testified that Gibbs bragged to him about the second killing, admitting he planted an AK-47 on the victim's body because he suspected the man on involvement with the Taliban, according to a report on the testimony in The News Tribune newspaper of Tacoma.
But during the trial, Gibbs insisted he came under fire.
"I was engaged by an enemy combatant," he said. "Luckily his weapon appeared to malfunction and I didn't die."
Gibbs testified that he wasn't proud about having removed fingers from the bodies of the victims, but said he tried to disassociate the corpses from the humans they had been as a means of coming to terms with the things soldiers are asked to do in battle.
The muscular 6-foot-4 staff sergeant also testified that he did it because other soldiers wanted the trophies, and he agreed in part because he didn't want his subordinates to think he was a wimp.
Gibbs initially faced 16 charges, but one was dropped during the trial.
___
Back to top
 
 

If you cant do anything to help someone.....don't do anything to hurt them.
Email WWW   IP Logged
Babadung
Executive Member
*****


LOL

Posts: 1617
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #1 - Nov 10th, 2011, 7:25pm
 
Quote from jh on Nov 10th, 2011, 6:50pm:
This soldier is certainly a criminal...but criminal behavior is not acceptable in  the military and there is a price to be paid. Many soldiers are also kind, compassionate and considerate...but they do not make the news.

US soldier found guilty in Afghan thrill-killings
By GENE JOHNSON - Associated Press | AP – 17 mins ago

JOINT BASE LEWIS-McCHORD, Wash. (AP) — A U.S. Army soldier accused of exhorting his bored underlings to slaughter three civilians for sport was convicted of murder, conspiracy and other charges Thursday in one of the most gruesome cases to emerge from the Afghan war.
Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, of Billings, Mont., was the highest ranking of five soldiers charged in the deaths of the unarmed men during patrols in Kandahar province early last year. At his seven-day court martial at Joint Base Lewis-McChord south of Seattle, the 26-year-old acknowledged cutting fingers off corpses and yanking out a victim's tooth to keep as war trophies, "like keeping the antlers off a deer you'd shoot."
But he insisted he wasn't involved in the first or third killings, and in the second he merely returned fire.
Prosecutors said Gibbs and his co-defendants knew the victims posed no danger, but dropped weapons by their dead bodies to make them appear to have been combatants.
Three of the co-defendants pleaded guilty, and two of them testified against him, portraying him as an imposing, bloodthirsty leader who in one instance played with a victim's corpse and moved the mouth like a puppet. Gibbs' lawyer insisted they conspired to blame him for what they had done and told the five jurors the case represented "the ultimate betrayal of an infantryman."
The jury deliberated for about four hours before convicting him. The sentencing hearing began immediately after the verdict was announced, with a prosecutor, Maj. Andre LeBlanc, asking for the maximum, life without parole. He told jurors that Gibbs was supposed to protect the Afghan people, but instead caused many to lose trust in Americans, hurting the mission. LeBlanc noted that Gibbs repeatedly called the Afghans "savages."
"Ladies and gentlemen, there is the savage — Staff Sgt. Gibbs is the savage," he said.
Gibbs' lawyer, Phil Stackhouse, asked for leniency — life with parole, instead of without it — and noted that Gibbs could be eligible for parole after 10 years if they allowed it.
"He'd like you to know he has had failures in his life and he's had a lot of time to think about them," Stackhouse said. "He wants you to know he's not the same person he was in Afghanistan. He doesn't want his wife to have to raise their son on her own."
The investigation into the 5th Stryker Brigade unit exposed widespread misconduct — a platoon that was "out of control," in the words of a prosecutor, Maj. Robert Stelle. The wrongdoing included hash-smoking, the collection of illicit weapons, the mutilation and photography of Afghan remains, and the gang-beating of a soldier who reported the drug use.
In all, 12 soldiers were charged; all but 2 have now been convicted.
The probe also raised questions about the brigade's permissive leadership culture and the Army's mechanisms for reporting misconduct.
After the first killing, one soldier, then-Spc. Adam Winfield, alerted his parents and told them more killings were planned, but his father's call to a sergeant at Lewis-McChord relaying the warning went unheeded. Winfield later pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the last killing, saying he took part because he believed Gibbs would kill him if he didn't.
The case against Gibbs relied heavily on testimony from former Spc. Jeremy Morlock, of Wasilla, Alaska, who is serving 24 years after admitting his involvement in all three killings.
According to Morlock, Gibbs gave him an "off-the-books" grenade that Morlock and Private 1st Class Andrew Holmes, of Boise, Idaho, used in the first killing — a teenager in a field — in January 2010.
The next month, Morlock said, Gibbs killed the second victim with Spc. Michael Wagnon, of Las Vegas, and tossed an AK-47 at the man's feet to make him appear to have been an enemy fighter. Morlock and Winfield said that during the third killing, in May, Gibbs threw a grenade at the victim as he ordered them to shoot.
Morlock and others told investigators that soon after Gibbs joined the unit in 2010, he began talking about how easy it would be to kill civilians, and discussed scenarios where they might carry out such murders.
Asked why soldiers might have agreed to go along with it, Morlock testified that the brigade had trained for deployment to Iraq before having their orders shifted at the last minute to Afghanistan.
The infantrymen wanted action and firefights, he testified, but instead they found themselves carrying out a more humanitarian counter-insurgency strategy that involved meetings and handshaking.
Another soldier, Staff Sgt. Robert Stevens, who at the time was a close friend of Gibbs, told investigators that in March 2010, he and others followed orders from Gibbs to fire on two unarmed farmers in a field; no one was injured. Gibbs claimed one was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, but that was obviously false, Stevens said.
Stevens also testified that Gibbs bragged to him about the second killing, admitting he planted an AK-47 on the victim's body because he suspected the man on involvement with the Taliban, according to a report on the testimony in The News Tribune newspaper of Tacoma.
But during the trial, Gibbs insisted he came under fire.
"I was engaged by an enemy combatant," he said. "Luckily his weapon appeared to malfunction and I didn't die."
Gibbs testified that he wasn't proud about having removed fingers from the bodies of the victims, but said he tried to disassociate the corpses from the humans they had been as a means of coming to terms with the things soldiers are asked to do in battle.
The muscular 6-foot-4 staff sergeant also testified that he did it because other soldiers wanted the trophies, and he agreed in part because he didn't want his subordinates to think he was a wimp.
Gibbs initially faced 16 charges, but one was dropped during the trial.
___

 
I agree!
Back to top
 
 

Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is. (2:117)
  IP Logged
Zanburak Shah Kabuli
Executive Member
*****


افغانستان
بیشه شیران
است.

Posts: 32465
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #2 - Nov 10th, 2011, 8:07pm
 
I dig that too.
Can you dig that? Wink
Back to top
 
 


افغانستان زادگاه نسل مغرور آریاست.
افغانستان لانه عقابان و بیشه شیران است.
تا که جهان است زنده افغانستان است.
Email   IP Logged
Shershah
Executive Member
*****




Posts: 5114
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #3 - Nov 10th, 2011, 11:42pm
 
This  soldier is ONLY one of thousands of US criminal Forces who committed similar Crimes against INNOCENT Afghan in particular Pashtoons.
 
Other wise people should tell me then who kill all these thousands of thousands of Pashtoon civilians -- ONLY this soldier ?  
 
So his trial is JUST a SHOW  
 
 
Quote from jh on Nov 10th, 2011, 6:50pm:
This soldier is certainly a criminal...but criminal behavior is not acceptable in  the military and there is a price to be paid. Many soldiers are also kind, compassionate and considerate...but they do not make the news.

US soldier found guilty in Afghan thrill-killings
By GENE JOHNSON - Associated Press | AP – 17 mins ago


Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jh
Executive Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 1633
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #4 - Nov 11th, 2011, 12:48am
 
Dear Shershah,
       I wish you could have served in the military...you would have a far better understanding of the people that serve this country. There are not thousands of them that do criminal actions. Thousands of innocent people die in any and every war.......killed by both sides....and innocent death can never be fully avoided in  the best of situations. I can tell you about a  number of senarios where innocent people can be killed but the combatants did not intentionally kill them.  
      Lets say you are in a patrol and you come under enemy fire. You discover where the fire is coming from and you call in  artillary.......you can not see the people but you can determine the location of the fire and you call it in . If there are civilians in that area, you may have no way of knowing it..............if they are in the target area, they may be killed or injured. It's easy to judge from the comfort of our computers when we do not have all the facts on what actually happens when  civilians get killed but it does not make the soldiers responding to enemy fire.....criminals. There is a big difference and we do not have thousands of criminals in our army....we do have some....and when caught....they are punished. Life in prison is a far harsher for a free man than the death penalty. This soldier will have the rest of his life to think about what he did.....and who do we answer to i  the next life???? They are not all criminals as you seem to believe and you will never hear about acts of kindness "committed" by soldiers because it is not good news material. You would have to serve in an infantry unit to fully understand what they go through and see the other side ......remember, there are two sides to every story. War is a tragic waste of human lives on all sides and all suffer. Soldiers do not choose the battles they fight or where they are sent......if you want to blame someone.....look to the president...he is commander in chief of the armed forces and he makes the decision to sent troops ....or remove them. If war is a criminal action...he is responsible for the conduct of the war......not the soldiers that you call criminal forces. Civilian death is always tragic....just as the death of any man is tragic and a waste of life....soldiers, civilian, and the enemy. They all have family and they all suffer the loss.  
     If you are the soldier that is facing charges, you would not think it is for show, its quite real and every soldier that commits a crime can be tried if caught, crimes are not looked at lightly in the military, if you had served, you would understand that well. The real crime is that we have a war ......and the ones responsible for starting it need to be punished. You need to look at more than one side to understand.
     You would have our forces attack Pakistan.....but if you were President and you ordered this attack....don't you think innocent people will be killed? Then you would be in the same boat that you are trying to sink here. You would be causing civilian death...there are always innocent people that are goi ng to be killed so you have to think long and hard before you say we should attack Pakistan or Iran because you would become the criminal you are saying US soldiers are....do you understand the implications of sending men into combat???....Innocent people are going to die.....its going to happen.......is the price you pay worth the battles you had to fight and the pain and suffering you people will go through?? Did you make life better for the ones that survive it....did you preserve their freedom? Was it worth the price we had to pay?  
     Many good men died in WW2.......today France is free, Germany is free, Italy is free, the US is free, Japan is free, China is free......ever wonder what life would be like for us today if Germany and Japan had won the war? Was it worth fighting? Was the freedom we have today worth the price paid by thousands of young men? Each of us can answer that in our own way...and understand that thousands of innocent people died in WW2 also. I understand your pain seeing innocent children die, you may not realize it but many soldiers feel the pain of seeing that also and many of them have children and don't think it does not affect them because it does. They are also human and feel the pain of seeing innocent people killed.
    
Back to top
 
 

If you cant do anything to help someone.....don't do anything to hurt them.
Email WWW   IP Logged
Shershah
Executive Member
*****




Posts: 5114
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #5 - Nov 11th, 2011, 1:19am
 

Dear JH
 
All troops that Committed war crimes say the same thing about their troops,  that  you say about your Troops .
 
From French Foreign Legion operating in Far East , North Africa
To NAZI troops
To Russians troops in AFG  
To Serbain troops in Bosnia and Kosovo  
To Criminal US troops tin Vietnam, Iraq and NOW AFG  
 
All of them say they were fullfiling orders and when came under attack they ask air support or arteliery  
 
So Why then ONE troop is criminal - ONE General is guilty of war crim , ONE force is barbaric --- the others NOT ?  
 
Why Maladic is a war criminal but Petraeus or other US criminal Generals NOT ?
 
Why Milosovic is a war criminal but Bush and Blair or Obama are NOT ?
 
I told you before and I repeat that a child knows that if he drop a ONE tone bomb on a village from where he came under fire -- the attacker with great possiblity will escape or already ater firing has escaped but hunderds children and women will be harmed, killed ...  
 
Beside that what Criminal US forces have been doing in AFG against civilians is NOT a single or few incidents  or separate incidents -- it is a systematic killing of innocent Pashtoons under the pretext of fighting or bombing Taliban.
 
This is PURE Mass Killings --  
 
It is NOT 100 Pashtoons or 1000 Pashtoon civilians -- it is thousands and Thousands.
 
I Never remember any time that Criminal US forces claim they killed Taliban during arteliery or air raid  -- which later has been found that they in reality killed innocent women and children  
 
 
 
Regarding this soldier:  
 
 
As I said first it is just  a Show -- the US criminal Forces want to show us that they are HUMAN  
 
In reality with this kind of Show they encourge more killings and more bombing of Innocent Afghans --as those criminals who committed these barbaric acts know that it is very small chance they would be court martialed as ONLY may be ONE or two will be put ON trail.  They also KNow that this soldier will walk free in a few years -- when in reality he should have been given death penalty- taking into account that death penalty is carried in the US  
 
Beside that this soldier is just an escape goat for those US criminanl generals who are ordering the killing of innocent Afghans -- especially Pashtoons for over 10 years.  
 
 
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2011, 7:12am by Shershah »  
  IP Logged
jh
Executive Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 1633
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #6 - Nov 11th, 2011, 1:27pm
 
Dear Shershah, I don't have a lot of time right now...but short answer...this soldier will serve the rest of his life in prison....life in prison is far worse than the death penalty where you are peacefully put to sleep. Any freedom loving man would prefer death to life in prison, then he gets to face his God and I would not want to be him.  
    Responsibility for wars has to be looked at...but its not soldiers that start them...leaders make decisions to send troops and they are the ones that bear responsibility for the war...and they should have to answer for what they do, just like you and I do if we break the law.
    I know a little about serving as I served in Vietnam...and while there are criminals in every army (as there are in civilian life) The vast majority was called on to serve their country and they served with honor and respect for the local people. There are crimes committed on both sides in any war because people are human and they are not perfect. But to refer to our armed forces as criminal forces is far from the truth. Like I said , you will never hear about the good that soldiers do ....because it does not make good news. Remember ...power corrupts...not all people...but many let it go to their head, its a human trait. The Japaneese were brutal in WW2 and most would not surrender to US troops because they were told they would be tortured. Most that did surrender were treated with compassion. There were also many japaneese soldiers that were good men.You can not lump all people into one bag.....just like Pakistan...there are many very good people in Pakistan and they also have criminals. We should not attack Pakistan for the same reason we should not attack anyone.......there are better ways to settle differences and give peace a chance. War should always be a last resort when all else has failed. Wars kill innocent people along with the enemy and the same will happen in Pakistan, so we can not promote war with Pakistan if war is wrong for Afghanistan for all the same reasons. War is not the answer or the solution. This world is a very unfair place and many injustices take place at all levels....sometimes you have to just smile and tell yourself, I will survive this and its not a killing affair.
 
Veterans Day Began as a Pledge to End All Wars
 
War Is A Crime:
"Believe it or not, November 11th was not made a holiday in order to celebrate war, support troops, or cheer the 11th year of occupying Afghanistan.
This day was made a holiday in order to celebrate an ARMISTICE that ended what was up until that point, in 1918, one of the worst things our species had thus far done to itself, namely World War I.
World War I, then known simply as the world war or the great war, had been marketed as a war to end war. Celebrating its end was also understood as celebrating the end of all wars.
A ten-year campaign was launched in 1918 that in 1928 created the Kellogg-Briand Pact, legally banning all wars. That treaty is still on the books, which is why war making is a criminal act and how Nazis came to be prosecuted for it."
 
Read the Article
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2011, 6:26pm by jh »  

If you cant do anything to help someone.....don't do anything to hurt them.
Email WWW   IP Logged
Shershah
Executive Member
*****




Posts: 5114
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2011, 2:28am
 
Dear JH  
 
PLZ read again what I wrote above-- because it seems that I and you are agree in many points  
 
As far as the life in prison in concerned -- I don't think this soldier will spend all his life in prison as according to verdict he is entitled for paroll in few years time.  
 
If it was NOT a show -- his execution could give a strong signal for other US criminals in AFG  
 
But as it is a just a show - the US defence ministry just want to show  to the world that they take issues seriously -- when in reality many US generals serving or served in AFG and Iran should be declared war criminals.
 
 
 
Quote from jh on Nov 11th, 2011, 1:27pm:
Dear Shershah, I don't have a lot of time right now...but short answer...this soldier will serve the rest of his life in prison....life in prison is far worse than the death penalty where you are peacefully put to sleep. Any freedom loving man would prefer death to life in prison, then he gets to face his God and I would not want to be him.
   

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jh
Executive Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 1633
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #8 - Nov 12th, 2011, 5:17am
 
Dear Shershah, To start any war is a crime...killing is a crime and goes against every religion I have seen so far....yet, we try to justify it when there are better ways to solve problems. Anyway, we do agree on a lot of things and none of the people on here are as far off base as some think. We all share many common values. anyway...just rto lighten your day...a sense of humor from a friends e-mail
 
 
 
 
 
 
Old Farmer's Advice  
 
Your fences need to be horse-high, pig-tight and bull-strong.
 
Keep skunks and bankers at a distance.
 
Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.
 
A bumble bee is considerably faster than a John Deere tractor.
 
Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled.
 
Meanness don't just happen overnight.
 
Do not corner something that you know is meaner than you.
 
It don't take a very big person to carry a grudge.
 
You cannot unsay a cruel word.
 
Every path has a few puddles.
 
When you wallow with pigs, expect to get dirty.
 
The best sermons are lived, not preached.
 
Most of the stuff people worry about, ain't never gonna happen anyway.
 
Don 't judge folks by their relatives.
 
Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
 
Live a good and honorable life, then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.
 
Don 't interfere with somethin' that ain't bothering you none.
 
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
 
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.
 
Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got.
 
The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with, watches you from the mirror every Mornin'.
 
Always drink upstream from the herd.
 
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.
 
Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back in.
 
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.
 
Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly, and leave the rest to God...
 
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
 
And.........................................  
 
 
Reflections from the Seat of an Old Tractor
IN GOD WE TRUST
 
have a great day...I am off to New Zealand for some R&R
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to top
 
 

If you cant do anything to help someone.....don't do anything to hurt them.
Email WWW   IP Logged
Shershah
Executive Member
*****




Posts: 5114
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #9 - Nov 12th, 2011, 6:54am
 
Quote from jh on Nov 12th, 2011, 5:17am:
Dear Shershah, To start any war is a crime...killing is a crime and goes against every religion I have seen so far....yet, we try to justify it when there are better ways to solve problems. Anyway, we do agree on a lot of things and none of the people on here are as far off base as some think. We all share many common values. anyway...just rto lighten your day...a sense of humor from a friends e-mail






Old Farmer's Advice

Your fences need to be horse-high, pig-tight and bull-strong.

Keep skunks and bankers at a distance.

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

A bumble bee is considerably faster than a John Deere tractor.

Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled.

Meanness don't just happen overnight.

Do not corner something that you know is meaner than you.

It don't take a very big person to carry a grudge.

You cannot unsay a cruel word.

Every path has a few puddles.

When you wallow with pigs, expect to get dirty.

The best sermons are lived, not preached.

Most of the stuff people worry about, ain't never gonna happen anyway.

Don 't judge folks by their relatives.

Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

Live a good and honorable life, then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.

Don 't interfere with somethin' that ain't bothering you none.

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got.

The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with, watches you from the mirror every Mornin'.

Always drink upstream from the herd.

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.

Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back in.

If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly, and leave the rest to God...

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
 

And.........................................


Reflections from the Seat of an Old Tractor
IN GOD WE TRUST

have a great day...I am off to New Zealand for some R&R

 

 
Dear JH
 
NICE post  Smiley
 
Have a Nice time in NZ hope you rest and enjoy
 
We continue our discussion   in your return.
 
Best wishes
 
 
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Shaakh-
Executive Member
*****


The lion of
resistance, the
legend, lives on

Posts: 15876
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #10 - Nov 12th, 2011, 10:47am
 

sh'tshah,
did your idol taliban ever punishing their soldiers for committing atrocities or crimes against innocent civilians?
 
 
Back to top
 
 

Beradari Barabari
  IP Logged
Zanburak Shah Kabuli
Executive Member
*****


افغانستان
بیشه شیران
است.

Posts: 32465
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #11 - Nov 13th, 2011, 9:22pm
 
Quote from Shaakh- on Nov 12th, 2011, 10:47am:

sh'tshah,
did your idol taliban ever punishing their soldiers for committing atrocities or crimes against innocent civilians?



Massoud called Taliban white Angels!
Kuse nane tu panjshiri sag.
Back to top
 
 


افغانستان زادگاه نسل مغرور آریاست.
افغانستان لانه عقابان و بیشه شیران است.
تا که جهان است زنده افغانستان است.
Email   IP Logged
jh
Executive Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 1633
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2011, 10:14am
 
Dear Shershah,
      I arrived in New Zealand, the weather is beautiful compared to a new Hampshire winter. I have a book that I recommend reading to see the other side of what a soldiers life is like and how little control they have over the situation they are thrust into. The name of the book is "The Good Soldiers" by David Finkel. It is a true account of the 2-16 Rangers and their experience in Iraq.It is a very accurate account of what soldiers face and the life they and their family's lead and the high price they pay to serve our country. It is an eye opener to see the other side. I know you see all American Soldiers as criminals...but please read their story to get an insight into the life of a soldier and what they go through, it will give you insight into how they think and feel and its a life of a living hell for so many of them and their family.  
     War is a crime and a tragic waste of human lives and talent. There are many good men on all sides of any conflict, its never all black or white. Leaders need to think long and hard before they send the troops into combat and a life of living hell for them, their enemy and the innocent people caught inbetween.  
    I feel for the combatants on both sides for none of them have much choice ....they do not choose the battles or the missions....there's is but to do or die. Leaders need to have their feet held to the fire for what they do. When the US was attacked by Alquada, the nation had to respond....but did we respond in the most affective way? I think we could have taken Alquada out without committing large combat forces and killing a lot of innocent people and displacing so many refugees in the process. It did not take an Army to get Bin laden......it just took good intel and special operations. Instead we let 19 Saudies alter our life and cost us billions of $$$. Kind of stupid I think. We have lost a lot of our freedom for so called "security" . Life is a risk and I would not give up any personal freedom so I can be "safer" There is always risk and we can combat terrorists without turning the world inside out and killing our economy and many innocent lives. As far as I am concerned, the terrorists won a victory at a cost of 19 men. Ego and pride can be used against a person and I think that is what happened with George Bush. In hindsight, we could have done it differently, achieved the same result and at a small fraction of the price in $$$$ and human suffering.
     The song "When will they ever learn" Is as a question that is yet to be answered. We need to learn from history or we will repeat the past.
Back to top
 
 

If you cant do anything to help someone.....don't do anything to hurt them.
Email WWW   IP Logged
Shershah
Executive Member
*****




Posts: 5114
Gender: male
Re: Not all soldiers are Criminals
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2011, 11:50pm
 

Dear JH
 
I hope you enjoy your time in NZ  
 
A few things for NOW and I will try to post more in the light of new developments in AFG and in the region
 
-- I never said all US forces are criminals--- But I said those who are in AFG are committing barbaric crimes  
 
-- I do agree with you that soldiers are under order -- therefore I said several times that majority of US generals committed or have been committing war crimes in AFG by ordering to drop ONE tone bombe on a village -- by mass killings and insulting Afghans in particular innocent Pashtoons.
 
-- I have told several times that what US forces did in Iraq and AFG are the same thing that Serbain Generals and troops did in Bosnia and Kosovo-- So why ONE is HEro the other Criminal and taking to the Hague ?
 
-- The Recent scandale  regarding a letter from Paki President Zardari to US government OR exactely to Chief of the Joint staff of US forces Mike Muelen shows again that Those Afghans who like Me condemns US forces for ignoring Porkistan( its army and terrorist organisation of ISI) were right --  I will write in this regard later bu I hope you follow the news
 
Enjoy your Stay and have a nice time in NZ
 
 
 
Quote from jh on Nov 19th, 2011, 10:14am:
Dear Shershah,
I arrived in New Zealand, the weather is beautiful compared to a new Hampshire winter. I have a book that I recommend reading to see the other side of what a soldiers life is like and how little control they have over the situation they are thrust into. The name of the book is "The Good Soldiers" by David Finkel. It is a true account of the 2-16 Rangers and their experience in Iraq.It is a very accurate account of what soldiers face and the life they and their family's lead and the high price they pay to serve our country. It is an eye opener to see the other side. I know you see all American Soldiers as criminals...but please read their story to get an insight into the life of a soldier and what they go through, it will give you insight into how they think and feel and its a life of a living hell for so many of them and their family.
    War is a crime and a tragic waste of human lives and talent. There are many good men on all sides of any conflict, its never all black or white. Leaders need to think long and hard before they send the troops into combat and a life of living hell for them, their enemy and the innocent people caught inbetween.
   I feel for the combatants on both sides for none of them have much choice ....they do not choose the battles or the missions....there's is but to do or die. Leaders need to have their feet held to the fire for what they do. When the US was attacked by Alquada, the nation had to respond....but did we respond in the most affective way? I think we could have taken Alquada out without committing large combat forces and killing a lot of innocent people and displacing so many refugees in the process. It did not take an Army to get Bin laden......it just took good intel and special operations. Instead we let 19 Saudies alter our life and cost us billions of $$$. Kind of stupid I think. We have lost a lot of our freedom for so called "security" . Life is a risk and I would not give up any personal freedom so I can be "safer" There is always risk and we can combat terrorists without turning the world inside out and killing our economy and many innocent lives. As far as I am concerned, the terrorists won a victory at a cost of 19 men. Ego and pride can be used against a person and I think that is what happened with George Bush. In hindsight, we could have done it differently, achieved the same result and at a small fraction of the price in $$$$ and human suffering.
The song "When will they ever learn" Is as a question that is yet to be answered. We need to learn from history or we will repeat the past.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print